Caring for the Caregiver: Compassionate Financial Planning with Danielle Miura

Josh St. Laurent: Welcome to the Wealth in Yourself Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you master the complex subject of money by simplifying it through stories and actionable advice. I'm Josh St. Laurent and this is Wealth in Yourself. Welcome to The Wealth in Yourself Podcast where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. I'm your host Josh St. Laurent. Today we're joined by Danielle Mura. Danielle is a financial planner, content creator and dedicated family caregiver. Her mission revolves around supporting family caregivers on their unique journeys, empowering them to prioritize their financial well-being while providing exceptional care to their families. Danielle's life underwent a significant transformation when a loved one's health began to decline. While she feels honored to be a family caregiver, she acknowledges that this role is often not one people actively seek, but rather one they find themselves in unexpectedly. Josh St. Laurent: Without formal training and caregiving, Danielle leveraged her expertise in financial planning to navigate the complex financial challenges that come with caregiving. She handles intricate financial questions, assists in making critical care decisions, shares valuable financial management tips and coordinates legal aspects related to estate planning. Her experience in insights not only enhance the lives of those she cares for, but also serve as an inspiration and guide for others in similar situations, highlighting the importance of financial stability and foresight in the realm of family caregiving. Danielle, welcome. Danielle Miura: Bye, you're here. Thank you for that introduction, Josh. I'm glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Josh St. Laurent: Absolutely. For anyone who's listening who maybe isn't familiar with you, what do you want them to know about you and your work? Danielle Miura: Well, I like to say that I'm a financial planner slash educator during the day, but I'm a super hero at night. Danielle Miura: Whatever I'm not doing financial planning or being a total finance nerd, don't worry. I am advocating for the underserved population focusing on helping family caregivers and spreading awareness about long-term care. That's the gist of my story. Danielle Miura: Josh, you said it really great introduction in early 2021. My grandmother fell in brokerhip and I had the choice of either being a family caregiver or just being a family member. My choice was to be a family caregiver and a great opportunity to be close to my grandmother and care for her, as well as advocate for this big population that I didn't even know existed. Josh St. Laurent: Forty-eight million Americans are caregivers that's over a quarter of the U.S. population that just seems so high more than I ever expected. Danielle Miura: It is. That's so high. And it feels to me like something that's not thought about by all advisor. And so I wanted to ask you right at the top, like what has caregiving taught you about financial planning and how do you think about, I'll say money or financial planning differently than you used to? Danielle Miura: That's a great question. So I think about it more from a family perspective than I did before. And how much family dynamics can really impact a financial plan. It's not just as simple as my daughter is for what she is for. And I'm going to take her to school every day and my expenses are going to be paying for her lunch to make sure she's fed during the day, make sure she has clothes. And when she goes to school and gets some dirty, I have to buy new clothes. Like it's more expansive than those small things like that. If she gets sick, then what do I do as a resource? If my grandmother falls, what does that look like? I feel like most of my job is turned into being like the devil's advocate of saying, you know, this happens to you. Like what does this look like? Danielle Miura: How is this going to change your financial situation? How is it going to change your family dynamic? Because life sometimes is not as simple as my routine of the day. It's take my daughter to school every day. That's it. Josh St. Laurent: It seems like you would think about maybe like what's important differently to like from this experience and working with the clients that you do. Like how's that shifted as far as like what you feel like is important in the financial plan and in the people's lives that you help? Danielle Miura: Yeah. In the Kiss its Report, it stated that 70% of advisors talk about long term care in their financial plans. Which to me feels a little bit higher than what I expected. It really makes me question, what does that conversation consist of and what does it look like? Is it just we're going to create a plan to figure out how much to spend for long term care? Danielle Miura: Is it calculating numbers and finding out how you're going to pay for long term care or is a deeper conversation like who is your support team? Who is going to take care of you when you have to rely on someone you have no choice? Who is going to be your power of attorney and do they know what that role looks like? Because a lot of people just think, oh, a power of attorney is just like signing checks. But there's a lot of legal responsibility that comes into being a power of attorney. It's not as easy as many people think. And it's more thinking about those out of the box questions that are really pivotal given my experiencing caregiving and long term care that many people who have not experienced it may not understand or may not know to ask those detailed questions. Josh St. Laurent: I completely agree. My initial reaction to 70% was also, that seems very high. I talk to a lot of advisors every day and to me that just seems like a high number. So I'd be curious to find out what is a conversation sound like. I want to kind of flip that back to you and say, how do you broach the conversation of a state planning? Let's say with a new client, what does that sound like? Where do you begin? And maybe it's different for each client, I'd imagine. Danielle Miura: Yeah, it's different for each client also depending on their age range, but I'm not an age differentiator either. This is a topic everybody's going to have to run into. Whether you're older or young, it's not just a conversation for those who are planning to retire. It's a conversation that everybody needs to at least have a plan in place. Danielle Miura: I think that's in a way the beauty of talking about long term care that it's this most uncomfortable conversation. It's like talking about divorce. No one wants to talk about divorce. But eventually, like 70% of the population is going to need long term care. So this is the opportunity to broach this topic because you don't want to be in a sticky situation where you're going to need long term care, but you have nothing saved for it. Then who do you rely upon? It's either other family members who may not be willing to take care of you or don't understand your wishes to properly make decisions for you. It's the government, but who does it fall upon when it's the government? They got to get their money somewhere. So it's going to fall on the taxpayer or it's falling upon you and caring for yourself. And you don't want to be in a situation where you're alone and you have no money and you're suffering because of it. Danielle Miura: So as I said, it's not an age differentiator. Everybody's going to need it at some time. And these are the times to have that conversation, even though it may be uncomfortable. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, absolutely. I want to kind of narrow in on caregiver specifically. You said, you know, it's such a difficult and uncomfortable conversation like long term care specifically. I could even make that more broad and say like insurance in general has such a bad rap, whether it's long term care or life insurance or disability or what have you. Are there documents when you're meeting with a, let's say, a new caregiver? Are there non-negotiables like power of attorney and things like that that have to be covered and talked about or for someone who is a new caregiver, you know, let's say someone's listening who is a new caregiver. What sort of advice would you give to them of different types of documents, insurance and ways to kind of protect themselves to start looking into? Danielle Miura: The sad part about being a caregiver is you almost get two spectrums. You get the part of being a caregiver might have to be quitting your job to be that full time caregiver for somebody. So you're losing income. Your health is likely to decline during caregiving, about 65% of caregivers health declined during caregiving periods, whether that's physically, that's emotionally. If you don't get long term care insurance before caregiving, you may not qualify after you finish caregiving due to your health issues. So that's like another, like you're not only taking care of yourself, you may not even have a plan for yourself because financially, you're taking care of the other end of the spectrum, which is your loved one. You may be paying for their expenses. Danielle Miura: Caregivers are more likely to dip into their retirement savings to pay for another level one's cost. The average according to AARP is about 7,200 a year in up to pay for health care costs for a level one. So you might get to the point when, like just to give you an idealistic picture of what this looks like, you might be a caregiver who has maybe saved up for retirement, but hasn't really thought or processed it out ahead of time. You haven't thought about saving for your own future. And then this sudden event happens where your parents have a fall or get a terminal illness or something, and you're now having to take care of them. You may be forking some of your financial means to take care of them because they haven't planned it for themselves. And then once you finish caregiving, you can't get long-term care insurance or unlikely to get it. You are rebuilding your retirement at 60 plus because you either dipped into it or are rebuilding it because you haven't paid into it for so long. And you might be out of a job trying to find another job. Danielle Miura: And you have to explain to your next employer, you know, why you've been out of work for so long, which is not an easy conversation to have with a new employer, especially when you're an older woman or male, there's ageism involved in other things. And they're like, maybe I should hire a young person to take this job, rather than, you know, hear you're pretty much starting your life over in your 50s and 60s. Josh St. Laurent: It sounds like a slippery slope. How does someone protect themselves? Do you help people sort of create guardrails, you know, to say, you know, I'm not going to empty my retirement accounts completely or, you know, I'm going to watch out for these signs, whether it's my physical or mental health. How do you kind of protect yourself as a caregiver to make sure that, you know, the worst-case scenario doesn't come to fruition? Danielle Miura: Yeah, we talk a lot about like financial health as taking care of your financial health, but for caregivers, a lot of the financial health is not only self-care and like seeing a therapist if you need it and getting those resources for yourself seeking help, but it's also placing those boundaries. Idealistically, I could say, I'm done with caregiving for the rest of my life. I did my duty, I did my three years. Now it's end in, I'm not going to take care of anybody else for the rest of my life. And I can say that, but that I could turn around five years later when my parents need my help and say something totally different. And I could say, oh, they need me. I have to be there for them. It's a personality type in a way that these caregivers display, this loving, caring support that they have for other people that makes them more likely to caregiv again. Danielle Miura: And so if I just say, oh, I'm not going to do it, like this isn't going to happen, I would be lying to myself. So instead I need to place boundaries of, if I do place this caregiving role again, what does this look like for me? How am I going to take care of myself so that I can then turn around again and be a mom again? Because I have two generations in between me. Well, one above and one below. And I don't want one to suffer. And so I have to find that boundaries of what is that financial boundary that I can place to not only meet my financial goals for the future and take care of my family, but also be able to care for somebody else and to everybody that that's a little bit different. But it's also what emotional boundaries, so if I get burnt out, do I have someone I can call upon to take care of my loved ones? Danielle Miura: How can I do to place those boundaries and make sure that I can be the best mom, the best businesswoman, the best caregiver that I can possibly be? And finding that balance is really difficult. Josh St. Laurent: I can imagine so. Like on one hand, it's incredibly selfless and giving and putting your family first on the other hand, it's a huge burden and responsibility on your shoulders. You mentioned, hey, I'm getting burnt out, calling another family member to help maybe expanding upon that. I believe in teamwork more than ever now as a business owner, right? It takes a village. How does that come into play as a caregiver? Are you encouraging people to enlist other family members or maybe a visiting nurse if they have the financial means? Like, does that play a role for caregivers, you know, building a team around themselves? Danielle Miura: Yeah. So every caregiver situation is a little bit different. For me, my definition of a team expanded, especially as her health got worse. To me, my team was my therapist, my community, community of caregivers, community of financial professionals, being a financial professional myself, I think it's okay to go to other financial professionals and be like, what do you think if I do this financially, what would this impact me for the future? Because you need that sounding board to go to somebody else, utilize the resources you have, like talk to your financial professionals, seek therapy or other professional help if need it. So, make sure you get your annual screenings with your doctor, make sure nothing's wrong with you physically. We extended that out as far as the neighbors were helping. My grandmother's neighbors were help walk her dog. They had happy hour every day and they came over to the house and had a glass of wine with her. Danielle Miura: That was that hour that I knew I didn't have to worry about her because someone would be there. There would be that person to walk the dog. There would be that care worker that could get that break because she's been up all night trying to help her use the restroom. So we tried to finagle the team that we had in order to make the best care possible. Josh St. Laurent: That's huge. I love the story about the neighbors who was out of conversation that was had or was that just, you know, they had such a good relationship that they sort of raised their hand and volunteered or what did that look like? How'd that come to be? Danielle Miura: My grandmother's personality was very spunky, but she was very sweet to the core. So if you could get over that spunkiness, you're kind of like attached to her to the core. As aging in place, it's so important to have your support team around you, have people that can check up on you in the neighborhood. Like the fire department was only a couple of walks away. Like they knew her by name when she would go to the ER. Like it was a great environment for her to live in. And she created these group of neighbors and friends around her. She would like take them to lunch. They would have birthday parties for her dog. They would go to restaurants together. She really did her best to kind of facilitate these relationships so that if something were to happen to her, she could rely on these people to help her. Josh St. Laurent: That's amazing. I want to transition a little bit. Like I think the listeners probably have a really good sense of you and, you know, what you do now, you're, you know, a half financial planner, half caregiver, half superhero at night, right? But I want to transition a lot of the listeners, our business owners, real estate investors, you know, one half that you wear is a business owner. What has that journey been like going from financial professional to financial professional who helps caregivers? Was it linear? Was it, you know, hey, I helped caregivers and you've got a million caregivers lined up at your door? Or what was that journey like as a business owner? Danielle Miura: I think of it more as like something I stumbled upon. I think the community kind of found me more than I found it. And I think that sometimes how people find niches is just sometimes you attract a certain people and then the community kind of develops around you. I think as a young kid, I envision myself to be like a police officer or physical therapist. I, I never imagined myself to be in this type of position. I'm glad I'm in the position, but I never imagined that I would be a family caregiver at 25. And so it was definitely something more of that I stumbled upon more than wished for. I'm really grateful for the opportunity that I was to take care of her and be able to reach out to such a great community that really cares and vibes off each other. And so if I were to say anything to the business owners and real estate professionals, I would say find a group of people that you really cherish and love to work with. And the day when your business is up and down and do you have those really big dips that you don't know how to get out of whether that's, you know, a slow turn in the market or that's business is always have complications. Find something, grab onto something that brings you hope, that brings you passion in life. Danielle Miura: That necessarily doesn't have to be as big as what I niched, you know, to caregivers, but maybe that's like working with a nonprofit on the weekends or that's building a community of professionals or people that you enjoy being around. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And my mind goes to, I mean, you speak the language of a caregiver, right? You know it intimately. You can understand their experience. And I think that's so important. I see a lot of business owners that I talk to. I'll just use the example of an advisor. You know, they help a niche of people in an industry that they've never been in and don't intimately understand. And it's hard for me to route my head around. So I agree with what you're saying. Have there been any big learning lessons, like maybe a mistake that was made where you say, hey, if I could go back, I would have done that differently. Danielle Miura: The way I look at that question, which I've been asked before is, I don't think there was ever a really bad mistake I made. And why I say that is not because I didn't make a lot of mistakes. I say that because I learned from all those mistakes. I built skills that can be transferred to anything I do. I was more educated. I think that mistake alone, that instant that occurred made me a better person. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, absolutely. So what were some of those lessons? I mean, was there, if you could start over, you know, is there anything you would do differently? Danielle Miura: Don't slam as much beatmalls on the wall than I did. Like, especially when that comes to marketing. I wanted to try it all at first. I was just like, why not try it all and have fun with it? I sure had a lot of fun with it, but I didn't necessarily do most of it right. Just do that one thing, marketing thing really well and have fun with it. Because there's so many different meatballs you can slam to the wall and hope it sticks. If you're just dividing your time between a million different marketing techniques, you're going to get lost and nothing's going to stick. Josh St. Laurent: It's so true. And there's so many different things to try. So many gurus, I must get three messages a day, at least, offering to get me a million leads per second. What were the different things that you tried? What was the one thing that you found really worked well for you? And I'd imagine it has to do with specifically talking to caregivers, right? And some of the problems that they face. Danielle Miura: I started with TikTok, I think. And then I moved to SEO. And SEO, I mean, like being quoted in articles, doing interviews, feel like backlinks. And then I have over like 120 blogs. I was writing a bunch of blogs. And I was really dividing my time on just, it felt like just marketing. Because I was just doing, as I said, I was doing everything at once. And what I ended up sticking with is LinkedIn and Twitter. I really have a really good community in Twitter. And I love the professional environment of LinkedIn. And I'm doing a podcast with you. So I'm enjoying doing podcasts when I have the opportunity. And then now I've developed a rapport with having this niche. And so it's much easier. I don't have to be like crowd searching for quoting opportunities or being mentioned in the press. They come to me now, which is a gift. And I get a maybe about an email a week or more from a reporter that wants to interview me. Danielle Miura: So it's nice now that I can take it back seat and have them come to me rather than I was like pitching for articles like five times a day, which can take up a lot of your time. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, absolutely. I've played this game myself. That's why I'm over here nodding. It seems like you did a lot of work on the front end. And now you're sort of enjoying the, I won't call it passive, but the more you're enjoying the fruits of your labor, right? At this point, are there things that you did that you think are repeatable that others could maybe follow in your footsteps to find success, whether it's on LinkedIn or Twitter, because I get a lot of questions about that from advisors. And I'd imagine some of them are listening. Danielle Miura: Just have fun be yourself. That's first foremost. And then ask questions. Don't be afraid to even if they're a marketing guru, don't be afraid to ask some questions. Send them a message. Ask other advisors questions. Ask other professionals within your industry. People are willing to help. People are willing to support one another, especially in the industry that we're in. I'm really grateful. I don't know about other industries. Where's some source you just ask? And they say, no, I can't help you. And then you move on to the next person. And that's really how I've gained a lot of my knowledge is just by asking questions. I'm going to be here in the city. You want to meet up with me. And can I ask you questions about such and such? Danielle Miura: Just not being afraid to ask questions. Not being afraid to ask for help. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, I love that advice. And you're right about our industry in particular. I don't think I've ever had anyone tell me now, when I reach out to ask for some sort of help, or hey, I'm dealing with this question. Everyone is always so happy to help. So I love that advice. As I'm reflecting back on everything that we've talked about and everything I know about you, it seems to me it's almost been a series of pivots, right? Oh, I'm a caregiver. I need to learn all about caregiving, right? And you end and you sought the education. Oh, I'm a business owner. I need to go learn about SEO and marketing and learn all these things. And you have. So my question for you is, what is next? Danielle Miura: I don't know that's the big question. I'm experiencing what life after caregiving looks like. My grandmother passed away September 27th. So it has been a couple of months now, but I'm taking some time off to grieve and kind of figure out what that next step will be. I think my heart will always be in the caregiving world and spreading awareness about long-term care. But what's next? I guess we'll have to find out. That's why you should follow me on social media to figure out what the next thing is. Sorry, shameless plug. Josh St. Laurent: No, that's perfect. Well, sorry for the loss of your grandma first and foremost, but that's a perfect segue. Like if someone is listening and wants to go and follow you, I'll drop all the links that I have in the show notes. But where is the best place, maybe Twitter or LinkedIn? Where's the best place for people to connect with you? Danielle Miura: Yeah, as I said before, like stick with two social medias and write it out. So for me, those two have been linked it in Twitter. They're both under my name. LinkedIn is my name and then Twitter is D-A-N-I-E-L-L-E. M-I-U-L-A instead of R-A because someone, I guess, likes my name so much that they want my account. Ah, fair enough. Well, I'll throw those in the show notes, make it easy for everyone listening. We'll transition to sort of the big three questions that I try to ask everyone towards the tail and more personal to you. So question one, what does living a wealthy life look like for you? Danielle Miura: To me, it's being happy and healthy. I've been saying more and more lately, health is wealth and getting back into the swing of things of taking care of my health now that caregiving has been over has been a real blessing for me. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, it's so true. If you could give one message to someone working to gain financial freedom, who isn't there yet, what would that message be? Danielle Miura: Don't forget that there might be pivots in the road. Not everything's gonna go as smoothly as what you may think it will be. Plan for those unexpected events. Josh St. Laurent: Yes, that's so true. Spoken like a financial planner. I think it's a message that everyone needs to hear and be reminded of. I think even I forget it sometimes. It's easy to things have been going so well for six months or a year and you just forget and you think everything's gonna be perfect forever and then you're reminded that life happens. So I think that's great advice. Third question, maybe the hardest. If you only had a thousand dollars and we're starting over, what would be the first thing you would do with that money? Danielle Miura: I feel like my younger self would say, use the money into travel and get the cheapest hotels so you could stretch the money as much as possible. But having a kid that doesn't work as easily unless you have a babysitter of course. I feel like now it's just like appreciating the little moments and appreciating time with family. Whether that's doing something as a family like taking a day trip and doing something special together since I haven't been able to spend as much time with my younger daughter due to caregiving. And it's more to me, it's more of a family focus of how can we really spend time together to build a life we want? Josh St. Laurent: I love that answer. So really using the money to create some sort of experience or memory, really family memory. Danielle Miura: Yeah, we're definitely more of like an experience family than a like possessions family, which is nothing wrong with money possessions. But we definitely feel like experiences are more important to us. Josh St. Laurent: Totally agree. What have I not asked you that you wish I did? Anything that you were like, man, I really wanted to talk about that. We didn't even go there. Anything that you want to add. Danielle Miura: Of course, it's been a lovely time having Josh as the TA of my life, financial life planning class. It's been a great class so far. I'm grateful for Professor Jetton for teaching that class and educating us. Josh St. Laurent: Yeah, I'm thankful to be a part of it. It was life changing for me. The first time I went through it, I've been nerding out on all the documents from the class. Like I'm one of those people who like saves all the documents and goes back through them. When I got the opportunity to be TA, it just made too much sense. I was like, well, finally I have a reason to actually be going through these again. So good, I'm glad that you like it too. Josh St. Laurent: Cool, well, that is a wrap. This has been the Wealth and Yourself Podcast where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. Our guest today was Danielle Mira. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. Josh St. Laurent: The Wealth and Yourself Podcast is hosted by me, Josh St. Loren, an edited and produced by Ray Heycraft. To learn more about how to make your money work for you, visit us at www.wealthinyourself.com and connect with us on all social media at WealthinYourself. This podcast is educational in nature and is not meant to be investment advice. Please do not construe anything said to be advice and the opinions of the guests may or may not represent the opinions of WealthinYourself. This podcast and the information presented are separate from my employment at Golden Gate University. Still, they are part of my mission to make no-cost financial knowledge more accessible. If you like the show, please take a moment to leave us a review. We read all of your feedback and we wanna make sure we cover the topics that matter most. If you have a specific subject you'd like us to explore or a guest you'd love to hear interviewed, don't hesitate to shoot us a direct message. And as always, thanks for listening.