Philanthropy with Purpose: Meaningful Moments with Deborah Goldstein

Josh: Welcome to the Wealth in Yourself Podcast, where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. I’m your host, Josh St. Laurent. Today, we’re joined by Deborah Goldstein. Deborah is the founder of Enlightened Philanthropy and is dedicated to guiding philanthropists in giving.

Drawing from more than 25 years of experience in fundraising and non profit management, she engages clients in an intuitive process. By helping clients align their values with their giving, she supports them in their attainment of a philanthropic vision. Goldstein bridges the gap between different ages, creating meaningful moments as family members come together to give collaboratively.

She is also the creator of Philanthropy Camp for Women. Debra, welcome. Glad you’re here.

Deborah: Thank you so much, Josh. It’s nice to be here. Good to see you.

Josh: Yeah, likewise. So, for anyone listening who isn’t familiar with you, What do you want them to know about you and your work that you do?

Deborah: Let’s see. I mean, as you just read in my bio, my background comes from the nonprofit world. I was a fundraiser and a grants manager and that’s sort of how I got into this work. I worked a lot with family foundations and I recognized that there were different dynamics in families and families were giving in different ways.

And there were families that were very focused in the way that they were giving and then families that Had a more In my mind ad hoc approach, I’m sure it wasn’t ad hoc, but they were giving to a greater variety of nonprofits. I really thought that there was something to those families that had more focused giving not only were they giving, but they were then engaging in activities around.

Thank you. Those causes that they cared about. So it almost became like a lifestyle or a way to bring meaning and purpose to their life. And so I thought there was something to that. So that’s when I switched, gosh, almost 15 years ago over to the world of philanthropy advising and working with individuals, couples, and families and helping them align their giving with their values. I mean, I think that’s the place that I start with everyone really.

Josh: Yeah, and I want to talk about the switch that happened 15 years ago. I saw, so you have a master’s in marine policy. So what was the switch? What was this catalyst if there was one?

Deborah: I mean, that was, that was really it. What I just described, you know, I had been working in, I had worked at a number of nonprofits in that area of either a cultural institution, like a science museum, or the Monterey Bay Aquarium, which really blended. My background, not only in policy, but in marine biology and writing, I was their grants manager for years.

And that was the place sort of, that was the jumping off point for where, you know, that catalyzed this idea of, like, there’s something more out there for me to do. And I felt like I had sort of gone as far as I could go in terms of grant writing and the work that I was doing. And I was looking for something a little bit different.

And also outside of a formal institution, like, you know, now I work for myself and I’ve really enjoyed the flexibility of being an entrepreneur and creating my own, you know, meaningful work life.

Josh: Yes. And that’s so important. So I wanted to touch upon. Like, I think there’s a lot of, like, misnomers and, and misled beliefs, I’ll say, about philanthropy and charitable giving in general, you know, and everyone has a little bit of a different experience with it. So can you just talk to, like, what are some of the different ways people can approach this?

Whether they’re, you know, brand new and are just interested in giving more or the person who’s, you know, been giving for a long time, but maybe aren’t doing it in the most strategic way. 

Deborah: Well, you know, I think for way too long in our society, we have attached the word philanthropy to older white men. not only older white men, but older rich white men, you know, that they have the wealth. They were the ones that created the institutions of our society and that they’re really the only ones that can give.

And part of my personal mission in the work that I do while I do work with families of wealth, I also really feel like regardless of whatever level you’re giving at, you can be a philanthropist, you can give things other than money. And you can give in very intentional ways. Like, you don’t have to have millions of dollars.

So, you know, sometimes it’s just sharing a smile with somebody that feels that they need it. and I remind people that philanthropy, you know, the word itself, comes from Greek roots that mean love of humankind. And if you can just start there, By loving other people being kind as you go about your day.

Even those simple things are acts of giving. their acts of philanthropy. you know, it can be everything from that to the billion dollar gifts out there, right? Like there’s this whole spectrum. what I try to help people do is focus on where in that spectrum they’re going to fall. It may be with their money.

It may be with their treasure. This is something that we heard a lot in the world of fundraising was that people were either giving their time. Treasure or talent. So they’re volunteering. They’re giving their money. They’re sharing their expertise. Maybe they’re serving on a board.

Maybe they’re serving on a committee. And then what we found in recent research is that the younger generations are giving their ties. So they are sharing their networks or bringing their networks into the causes that they care about. Three out of four of those ways don’t involve any money at all. Right. And yet they still could be philanthropy.

Josh: That’s really great to recognize. Like I had actually a really timely conversation this morning with a brand new client and it went right to philanthropy is one of the most top of mind things for him. And so we were talking about different ways, just like you’re talking about. I like that expression, time, treasure, and talent.

You know, a big part of what he does is goes to Haiti and he’s got these building skills and really finds a lot of joy in doing that, him and his wife. And he has almost this hesitation in giving to large organizations. He fears that, Hey, maybe the money isn’t going to be used in the same way. He likes being boots on the ground.

Could you talk about, you know, maybe some of the different ways that people can kind of get into giving, but also feel good about, you know, who or what they’re giving to.

Deborah: You know, after I have that initial values and interest conversation with my clients, the next place we go is to the who, what, where, when, why, and how, and really getting into some of those details. Like, do you like giving to, organizations that you’re familiar with, everybody knows their name, you know, they have a good reputation, you know, does that feel better for you and more comfortable or are you somebody that is willing to take a risk on a grassroots organization that’s really localized and in the community, but they’re doing amazing work and again, there’s, there’s a spectrum, you know, there’s all these sort of spectrums that I help my clients navigate of, like, where does it make the most sense for you and people have different levels of tolerance, especially when it comes to risk and they’re giving, you know, are they willing to give to something that’s newer and maybe not A proven answer so there’s that there’s, the basic needs giving, and then there’s the advocacy giving, and the basic needs meets what’s happening on a day to day basis, but the advocacy is trying to get rid of that problem from the ground up, like, how do we eliminate this so that we don’t keep running into this people have.

Varying degrees of comfort in those different areas of giving. 

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. and a lot of the people listening are business owners, real estate investors. They give because. They like to give, right, it brings a lot of joy to their life, but also for the tax deductions. And so, I was hoping you could touch upon, how does one choose, you know, a donor advised fund versus starting a foundation versus giving the guy or gal in front of the grocery store at Christmas time, you know, a dollar for Salvation Army.

Like, how do you, how do you choose, what makes the most sense for you?

Deborah: That’s such a great question. Yeah, cause the Salvation Army, I mean, we’re coming up to that time of year, right? To even handing a dollar to somebody on the street, somebody that doesn’t have a house. So, that again is part of the process of examining what feels comfortable to you.

So some people really feel comfortable knowing that they have a plan, that they’ve kind of researched and vetted these organizations, that it aligns with their values. It falls, you know, into the line of all these different parameters that we discuss, and they have a very specific impact they want to make with their dollars.

And that makes sense for somebody who’s really. Giving it very high levels to be able to really move the needle on some issues, you know and so that’s when you see, like, larger foundations, they have the capacity to do that sort of thing. And that’s what we see a lot of in

terms of daft. I think the great thing about a death is that it is something that, you know, doesn’t have the 5 percent distribution requirement that a foundation has.

You can put the money in and take it out right away and distribute it right away. So, in some respects, I feel like DAFs make sense for families that have. Less money that also want to get it out really quickly that maybe are not creating some big strategy around the way that they’re giving. They still, of course, have, some thoughts, you know, and intention around their giving, but not to the level that those that have a foundation have and then.

You bring up the thing of proactive giving, which is kind of what I’ve just been talking about, and then the more reactive giving. you’re asked, do you want to round up at the grocery store? You know, do you want to put some coins into the Salvation Army bucket when you go to the store or a wildfire happens on Lahaina. You know, or… any other number of communities around the United States. A natural disaster happens internationally, you know, we just want to give. And so that comes into the more reactive phase. And so often I have clients who like to have the majority of their portion of giving go proactively to the organizations that they have decided to give to, and then have a budget, a smaller budget for the reactive giving, because there just is that inclination of like, I just, I really want to do something or, oh, my friend is, my friend is like the summer I did a hike to support make a wish Oregon.

So, you know, like in that case, if somebody had asked me and it was like, oh, my friend asked me to do this, like, yeah, I’m going to give them some money to support the hard work that they’re doing to support this organization. So, that’s kind of the way I look at those. And, and again, you’re, you’re really highlighting like these giving vehicles run the spectrum of like how people can give.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. My financial planner brain really loves the idea of these two budgets. You know, I’m going to set aside X amount of dollars for Make A Wish every year, and I’m going to set aside Y amount of dollars for the natural disasters and things that come up that I know that I want to participate in.

So I like the idea of that, and I think it gives some structure as opposed to not having any budget at all. I come across that fairly often, where it’s like, well, I want to do these things. Can I afford to? Can I not? Should I give more for tax purposes? Am I giving, you know, maybe too much? Should I wait till next year?

here. Like a lot of these questions I think are not solved, but very much helped by having these budgets. And so I wanted to ask, like I would imagine in the philanthropy camp for women, that you run a lot of these topics that you teach.

Deborah: Absolutely. Yeah. Essentially, the philanthropy camp for women is something that I wanted to create for women who wanted a simple entry point into giving and who maybe were not necessarily giving at higher levels, but felt like they still wanted to be meaningful and intentional in their giving.

And so that’s a chance for women to come together and give or learn in a collaborative manner. and yet they’re still getting sort of the same content. Maybe even a little more actually than I, go through with my clients that I work with one on one that either go through a set process or families that have a.

Entirely customized process for whatever their needs are. So yeah, I mean we talk about all these things that we’ve, talked about already. We also talk about, you know, how do they define success for themselves? Like, I think that’s a really important thing around giving is like, if you want to feel good about it what does success mean to you?

And Some people, it just means I’ve picked good organizations and you know, the money has gone out the door which we often refer to as trust based philanthropy. These days, you know, you trust the organizations that you’re making the donations to and then there’s people like I talked about that really want to have this bigger impact that it’s going to have measurable results, you know, and they can really count what’s happening with their dollars.

we get into some other issues in philanthropy camp for women, like money messages that you might’ve heard growing up and how that may impact how you think about giving, how you feel like, what is enough in terms of giving, we talk about receiving we also do a giving circle so women can feel like what it’s like. That’s a very popular way to give these days, especially for women to make the impact of their gifts larger. And so they get to experience that and see what it’s like to give in a community like that and see if that’s something that feels like that’s a way that they want to continue as.

They go on and then I guess the other thing I’d throw in there is like, I don’t ever feel that a philanthropy plan is static. You know, that it needs to be revisited. You know, when you’re going to go the next year and look at making your gifts. Look, check in, you know, we talk about checking in with yourself, like, how did you feel about this gift?

How did you feel about the communication you got from the nonprofit? You know, do you feel like this is doing what you want it to do? Have your values changed? Has your, your life situation changed so that maybe you’re thinking about giving in a different way or giving to a new organization you haven’t given to we cover all those topics.

Josh: Wow. I love the intentionality behind it. I think you use the phrase like impact based, like what’s the impact that my dollars are having for whatever reason. Maybe it’s just the clients that I talked to, but it seems like the female clients are much more intentional, right? They want to know what is the impact versus a lot of the male clients I have.

Well, I write a check around Christmas time every year, et cetera. And so that’s kind of this interesting paradigm in my mind. And I’m thinking back to what you said about the old white man, you know, establishment of, building these systems in place. My perspective is that you’re sort of shaking that up and, changing that dynamic just my opinion about like, do you share that same perspective?

Deborah: Yeah. I mean, I agree. I think that’s why I’m a woman of course. So that’s one reason why I really want to support women in their giving. And also I feel like women really have a tendency to sell themselves short when it comes to their giving. I mean, I once was at a networking event and A woman came up to me and she said, Oh, I really want to be a philanthropist.

She was actually sort of the catalyst for this idea. And she said, I really want to be a philanthropist, but I work at a nonprofit and I don’t have a lot of time. and I volunteer here and, you know, I just kind of let her go on her thing. And I just stopped her and said, everything you just said to me, Says you’re already a philanthropist.

I don’t know of anybody else besides me that said this, but I often say that like, if you work at a nonprofit, you’re a philanthropist. Like you know, you have chosen a different path in life and you’ve chosen To do good in the world, not that people in the corporate world don’t do good, but you know, you’re choosing to do good in a different way.

You’re maybe getting paid less than you might in the corporate world, you know, like that is an act of philanthropy, her volunteerism, active philanthropy, you know, so that really, like I said, she was the catalyst in some ways for this idea was because I wanted women to see that yes, you are giving in a myriad of ways and you’re not giving yourself credit for the fact that you are a philanthropist.

So how can I help you what it is you’re already wanting to do? See what you have been doing and see how maybe some improvements can be made in the way that you want to do it.

Josh: That is a really interesting perspective. What I’m thinking about now is, I mean, you work with a wide variety, I’ll say of different people at different levels of giving. Are there things that you see commonly that are easy changes that people can make? I don’t want to say, I don’t want to use the word mistakes, like, there’s not a wrong way to give, right?

But is there a way to change simple things that people are commonly doing to enhance their giving or maybe give a little bit more structure to it so that, you know, they can be more intentional?

Deborah: Yeah. Thank you so much for that question, Josh. That’s a really good one. You know, I think, some of the things that I often see with my clients is there’s a feeling of overwhelm. They get so many requests and especially as we move into the, you know, quote unquote, giving season People are inundated with requests and people often feel the need to make a decision, you know, right there in that moment.

And you don’t have to, you can decide yes. Every time I see a Salvation Army bucket this season, I’m going to put a few coins in, I’m going to make sure that I have coins in my pocket ready to go. I worked with one client who essentially gave every time she received a request, so she was giving throughout the year.

It became too overwhelming for her. And so we said, you need to designate for yourself a giving day. You save up all those requests, whether they come in the mail, they come in the email, trust me, whenever you give, those organizations still need your money. This can be on your timeline. And I think that’s a really important thing for people to understand is that giving can be on your own timeline and you can do it at whatever pace makes sense for you. You can look at it, one time a year at the end of the year, you can look at it, quarterly, if that makes more sense to you, if you’re a person that likes to be a monthly giver, you can decide. Yes, monthly giving is the way for me and I’m going to set up, you know an auto deposit for this organization that I really care about.

So I think that’s one thing a huge thing that I see with a lot of people is just having, being able to get some sort of organization. around their giving to help with that overwhelm, that feeling of overwhelm. And then the 2nd thing I would just, highlight, I mean, there’s probably others to highlight, but the 2nd, 1 that comes to mind is this idea of evaluation and really like bringing intention and awareness.

I think that’s why this idea of setting aside a specific time that you’re going to give and maybe you’re going to have a conversation with your partner or you’re going to have the conversation with your family as a whole about where you’re giving is really important because it allows you to have more awareness.

It allows you to have more intention and see, okay, This is where my money is going out. This is where my money went last year. You know, taking the time, I think that’s just another huge way that people can bring back the joy in their giving by really being aware of how they’re giving.

Josh: You’re speaking to me that I’m learning things right now because I think even this concept would be helpful for me because I think you said earlier, like there’s people who are more reactive and it’s, you know, it’s easy, especially with all the awful things that are always happening in the world.

I’m a big softy, you know, so sometimes, you know, it’ll be March and I’ve already hit my, you know, target in my, in my daff. And I’m like, what am I going to do for the rest of the year? So I like kind of flipping that on its head, having a budget. Cause for me, it’s always a target, I can hit that very quickly.

And then the giving day, I really liked the idea of that as well. Kind of keep an inventory of like, these are the important things and then distribute it. Because I would have to imagine part of that. Reactiveness is emotion based, you know, making decisions based on emotions can be not always necessarily the best thing for you.

You know, well, it’s February, but I don’t care. I’m going to give my entire budget to this one organization because I’m, you know, I’m so passionate about it right now. I just saw this thing on the news or whatever it was. So I got to imagine that’s a factor.

Deborah: Yeah, for sure. And you know so many of the giving decisions that are made are very emotional, you know, that it really is coming from a place of, Oh, my heart goes out to those people. Or, Oh, I wish I would have had. This service when my family was going through this or what, you know, or, oh, I really care about the elephants and the poaching that’s happening.

And I don’t want that to happen to them. So, you know that’s where I think this idea of doing some internal research around what matters to you and what your values are and really kind of being more focused is helpful. And then doing the external research as well. It’s like, take a look at their website, take a look at their social media, ttake a look at their 990, take a look at their annual reports. You know, if all of those details matter to you, 

Josh: One reason that I’m glad we’re talking about this like I think back to my days I spent a decade in I’ll call it corporate finance, right one of these giant national corporations and Philanthropy was sort of viewed as this like, you know cherry on top you spend, you know Point one percent of the conversations talking about it And I really didn’t like that and I’ve come to realize talking more with the clients that I like to work with especially that It’s not 1 percent of their financial plan in their mind at all.

I’m going to throw a case study at you without giving away any names or personal details or anything, but it’s fresh on my mind. We had a meeting this morning and he’s a medical professional and I’m out in Northern California. So there’s a good segment of clients where there’s a lot of distrust.

They do not want to be investing in the Amazons or Facebooks of the world. They do a lot of angel investing. You know, he goes to Haiti, like I said before, to build hospitals, but he puts himself at risk. I mean, he asked me to come to his house and help him dig up money, right? It was a first in my career.

I mean, he’s hiding money in his yard, right? Like, you hear the proverbial, you know, under the mattress. I mean, he needs help digging it up, you know? I mean, that’s like the level that we’re at. And he puts himself at risk because he’ll travel with, you know, large amounts of cash to Haiti and everything else.

And I don’t think he understands, like, that could be seized, you know? Nothing nefarious. I mean, he’s a medical professional. He’s earned it over decades of having his own practice. you know, for someone like that, like where is it, where is a starting point? Because for him, that’s his main driver to work with me.

You know, he wants a philanthropic plan. He wants to feel good about where his money’s going. He would rather have it buried in his yard than give it to Facebook or, you know, these companies. And so… I respect, you know, that values based type of investing, but where does someone like that start? Because obviously he’s sort of on one end of the spectrum and wants to come over here when it comes to being strategic with philanthropy.

Deborah: You know, a lot of my work is meeting clients where they’re at. and you know, so in this case, you need to meet him where he’s at. So understand, really understanding. It sounds like you’ve had a great conversation already about what he’s doing. I guess the opening question would kind of be like, well, what’s next?

if you were to go in a different direction, if you were to give more what might that look like for you? You know? I really believe, and this is why, you know, I refer to it as an intuitive process. I mean, I really believe that my clients have the answers within them. It’s me facilitating the conversation and asking the right questions to get out from them, what it is they need.

And so it’s sort of digging into that. Like if you were to expand your giving beyond Haiti, What would that look like? Would it be another developing country? Would it be the United States? You know, what does that look like? And then help them start to explore, explore whatever that interest area is.

And I think it’s baby steps. you’re not going to make a leap overnight, It’s just the baby step of what’s next. And let’s maybe give some small gifts in that area to see, does that feel good? Are you still, you know, a year later thinking, this is the direction you want to go. Okay. Let’s increase that budget. Let’s give more.

Josh: I think what excites me is the extra impact that they could make because their hearts are so big. I mean, his wife’s in Portugal right now. Their passion is around prenatal postnatal, like birthing centers and hospitals. And that’s what she’s doing in Portugal. That’s what they do in Haiti. And it’s really inspiring, like the work that they do and being able to realize that, well, you know, if this money wasn’t buried in the yard, you know, even if it grew an extra thousand bucks this year, like how far could that thousand dollars go in Haiti?

And so that’s inspiring to me is like, well, you know, my small role in this is like help, you know, with the strategy behind the scenes, you know, maybe you get a bigger tax benefit. Maybe there’s a little bit more to give, but you have the clarity to know, okay, we have a budget. We have a giving. day. You know, we can set a timeline of when we’ll be in Haiti, et cetera.

So I think that that can be compelling for someone who says, well, I’m already this, you know, great giver. But to be able to enhance that I think is a cool role to be able to play.

Deborah: Yeah. And you know, I just want to point out, you, brought up a point that you know, the tax benefits and, and I know how financial planners love to talk about the tax benefits. And so I just want, I just want to point out, you know, there’s even been research done on this that if you ask a, you know, a financial advisor, have you had the conversation about philanthropy with your clients?

Oh yes, totally have. Yeah. Yeah. And it comes from this. you know, this tax deduction perspective. And then you ask the client, have you talked about philanthropy and giving and all of that with your financial advisor? And the majority of them are going to say, you know, much lower percentage are going to say, yeah, we had that conversation because they’re not thinking about it from the tax perspective.

Sure. You have those clients that will think about it from that perspective, but The majority are going to be thinking it from a different perspective either. How can I make a difference in the world? How can I bring my kids into this?

Into my giving and introduce them to philanthropy and what it is that we’re doing in the world You know, so those are some other perspectives that I hope would help people think about how they actually broach the question often, like you said before, it’s emotional, are taxes emotional?

I mean, yes, I guess you can get emotional about taxes, right? But, but not in the same way that you can, you know, about making a difference for communities in Haiti, you know? And so just keep that in mind when people are talking with their clients.

Josh: Yeah, definitely. It’s incredible when you really listen, right? Like we spent. Two hours maybe talking about philanthropy and if you were to ask me how much is in his IRA I don’t know if we even talked about that. It’ll come you know To me that’s data entry. So that’s just a you know a huge piece of the pie for him Let me just transition.

You’re the co dean of philanthropy at the purposeful planning Institute. What does that look like? What does that entail?

Deborah: Yeah. Oh, thank you for asking about that. Purposeful Planning Institute is an organization that’s been around, I don’t know, about 12 years now created by the magnificent John A. Warnick. It’s based in the Denver, Colorado area, and it’s an organization that is meant to support those of us in the myriad professions that surround and support families with wealth.

So, it’s everybody from me, who’s a philanthropy advisor, to someone like yourself, who’s a financial advisor, to historians, to family videographers and documentarians, to financial therapists. It’s really a diverse group. 

I serve as co dean with my fellow co dean Stephanie Ellis Smith of Phyla Engaged Giving.

And we both are sort of seen as the thought leaders in the community around philanthropy and giving. And in that role we either help to present webinars or we host podcasts. So we bring in experts to talk about some of the things that we want to talk about in the world of giving and working with families around their philanthropy.

Josh: That’s really, really cool. I want to ask kind of a targeted question for the business owners listening. I’m kind of fascinated by this ripple effect kind of concept, right? Where, you know you can sort of enable someone else to do good in the world. And so this kind of goes back to the conversation I was having this morning, but you know, as someone who’s a business owner with employees.

How do you sort of encourage that? Maybe it’s a day to go volunteer. Maybe it’s a matching contribution to a donor advice fund or something along those lines. Do you do any sort of work in those sort of spaces?

Deborah: I don’t so much. But you have touched on two things that come to mind, you know, immediately. You know, of course, doing a volunteer day. That makes sense. I know some corporations like to choose, you know, this is the cause. This is the organization that we’re supporting other companies. Just Pay for a day for their employees to take off and volunteer for whatever cause. They care about there’s also, you know, matching gift opportunities that they’ll match your gifts. whatever contributions up to a certain level that their employees may give you know, I think there’s also, you know, there’s the potential for maybe team building around these sorts of things, it could be.

Yeah, I mean, those are the 2 main ones that come to mind. I know there’s certainly other things out there. I actually was just reading a job announcement for a job today that listed in its benefits that you got to give, they would give you like a certain amount. That you could give to a nonprofit of your choice each year and that it was somewhat great amount.

It was like 2, 500 per year. And of course, this was an organization that is already their focus is already philanthropy. So, this was just really putting, their money where their mouth is. It’s like, not only do we care about how we’re doing this, but we care about our employees giving this. And I thought, you know, that’s a really great perk.

So, yeah, there’s definitely different ways about going about it.

Josh: That’s incredible. I know that’d be so compelling for a lot of people. Like as a job perk, that would be something that would differentiate anyway if you were interviewing in a few places. So I have a question. If you could fully fund any nonprofit project, what would it be?

Deborah: Oh, man, that’s such a great question. I’ll give you my answer. And

I’ll also just say, you know, if anybody’s been paying attention to the news in the past few years they’ve been seeing the kind of giving that Mackenzie Scott has been doing that’s just been like, we’ve really not seen before and the amount of funds that she’s really putting into organizations and I just want to applaud her for that. that is really making a difference. I think, in terms of the capacity of what these organizations can do. and I think that is something actually, that raises another point, and yes, I will answer your question, but it raises another point of like, when you give, how far is that money going to give within the organization?

Like, does the size of your gift make sense for the organization that you’re giving to? I think that’s a really important thing for people to consider. So, I’m going to give you my answer and then I’m going to also share something that I’ve been thinking about. I really love sea turtles.

I’ve done a lot of work with organizations that are helping sea turtles survive. Most of the species are threatened or endangered. And so I would really support that work. I know sea turtles is an organization, S. E. E. Turtles is an organization that’s been doing a lot of work. And I guess they’re kind of near and dear to my heart as an organization.

and having said that, you know, really any organization is worthy, right? And one thing that I’ve come to is like, yes, this has been a historic cause that I really care about. In fact if people want to watch, I have a TEDx talk that I did titled, I think, are you a philanthropist? Which is on my website.

And I talk about my experience working with this organization and giving to them in these different ways that we’ve discussed today.

And yet I’ve had some things happen in my life recently where I myself am, you know, reevaluating my own giving. And will some of the organizations that I’ve given to in the past remain on the list?

I don’t know. I mean, I think sea turtles will always be on there. You know, just the environment, climate change is so huge and sea turtles are animals that have been around. For a long time. ever, really, and to see a species like that wiped off the face of the earth would, I think, would be really sad. And when you protect an animal like that, you’re protecting so many other, you know, things.

It’s not just about the animal itself, but the greater environment they live in. So, there’s my long winded answer.

Josh: I’m with you. Sea turtles are incredible and I just have a short story. Amanda and I were on the beach in Costa Rica one night and we stumbled upon a big hatching. And so something I’ll never forget. You know, a standout moment for sure in my life. And we spent hours chasing the birds, stopping bicyclists. You know, we were on turtle patrol for, for the rest of the night.

Deborah: Oh my gosh. Good for you. I love that. Wow, so fulfilling. I mean, to, be able to witness, like, Nature and action like that is really special and amazing. I’m glad you both got to see that.

Josh: It was very cool. I wanted to touch upon your tagline, “this moment matters.” What can you say about that? 

Deborah: Yeah, so my tagline for my business is actually guiding your giving but I wear a necklace That in fact, I’m wearing it today

From Lisa Leonard. I I’ll give a plug out to her and her jewelry

That says this moment matters And it’s just a reminder. It’s something that I put on before I have conversations about my work or I have client meetings to remind myself that, this interaction matters and that.

We’re creating a meaningful moment. I have a much larger story. If anybody ever wants to hear about that around meaningful moments, but just bringing that that was a personal experience and bringing that into my work as a reminder that this conversation matters I’m helping these families decide and think about matters.

And so it’s just sort of a personal reminder for me. Thanks so much for asking about that.

Josh: I want to transition to like the big three questions I try to ask everybody. I think you’ll, I think you’ll like them.

So question number one, what does living a wealthy life look like for you?

Deborah: Living a wealthy life to me is about gratitude recognizing that wealth is not only about money, it’s about friendships, it’s about family, it’s about, the beautiful environment in which I choose to live the home I create for myself and being grateful for those things that I have in my life.

Josh: It’s so much bigger than money. I always think too, that that study is like anything over, it’s like 70, 80 K is kind of a range and then anything above and beyond that, it’s like, just doesn’t really make a difference in your happiness. I always thought that was fascinating.

Deborah: I know. Isn’t that fascinating? I mean, the bar is set so low, right? And yeah, I think like I’ve had some discussions with colleagues lately around what is enough, and I think that kind of allows us to see where we’re wealthy, and be able to expand our capacity for giving when we really kind of determine, What is enough and what makes, what makes sense for our own I guess another thing I’d say is like, I’ve always felt like gifts for especially… I was an aunt for a very long time before I was a mother. So, you know, my gifts were about having experiences with my nieces and nephews rather than the next greatest toy, you know, like to me, I’d rather spend time with that person.

That is wealth to me.

Josh: Definitely. Yeah, experiences over things. So the second question is, if you could give one message to someone working to gain financial freedom who isn’t there yet, what would it be? And so maybe someone who listened to this episode and says, man, I really wish that I could give on a, on a much higher level.

Just not there yet. Financially. Like what would you say to them?

Deborah: I’d say, you know, you give what you can. So if it’s time, again, if it’s the expertise you give that, and when you have the dollars that you want to give, you’ll get there. You know, if you have that intention in your mind. You can get there but there’s ways that you can start small wherever you are and whatever income level you’re at.

Josh: Yeah, that’s so true. And it’s been incredible in my own life to see, like, how full circle it comes when you give. Whether it’s time or money, like, it just comes back tenfold, you know? I mean, giving is getting, really. Like I think it’s hard to conceptualize until it actually happens to you. 

Deborah: Yeah. It’s good karma. And actually there’s definitely health benefits. I mean, there’s been proven studies that there are health. Benefits from giving they refer to it as the, the givers glow or the helpers high and that you do receive these, hits of dopamine and one other one I forget, you know, when you actually give and so you’re doing your body good to when you give, you know,

Josh: Yes, third question. If you only had a thousand dollars and you were starting over, what would be the first thing you would do with that money?

Deborah: Oh my gosh, Josh. Wow.

Josh: Hardest question of the day. 

Deborah: I know it really is. I mean, there’s, my mind is just going in so many different directions, you know, just building off of what we just, you know, what you just said, like I could just give it away and like, see how that, you know, that comes back to me. I could invest it. I could save it.

I could do all three. Maybe that’s where I’d go with it would be like a little bit of, you know, of all three. too hard to choose.

Josh: It is. It is. And I’ve gotten the comment before, like, thousand dollars is a lot of money in a lot of respects, but at the same time it’s not very much at 

Deborah: it’s  so true. It’s so true. I know. I’m thinking of that song, that was really popular and like, I don’t know, the early 90s, I guess, of um, Barenaked Ladies, if I had a million dollars and I’m like, I’m like, Josh, you’re not giving me enough money here. 

Josh: Yeah

Deborah: Yeah, but I think, you know, I, I guess actually bringing that up, I feel like, my answer would probably be the same, even if it was magnified that large, you know, that part of it gets invested. Part of it gets saved. Sure. Part of it gets spent on like maybe some, current wants that haven’t been fulfilled or needs even, and then given away.

Josh: Yeah, spread it out. That makes sense. So for someone listening who wants to connect with you, we’re going to put all your links in the show notes, but where is your preferred place for someone to go and connect with you?

Deborah: Sure. Probably LinkedIn is the best place to find me these days. I’m kind of on there pretty regularly and I’m posting about. Whatever thoughts are in my mind. You can also go to my website, enlightened philanthropy. com. I do send out a monthly newsletter. Sort of talking about the questions that are top of mind lately.

So that’s another place to find me and what I’m working on.

Josh: Perfect. Is there anything you wish I would have asked you? Something you wanted to talk about and we just didn’t get there?

Deborah: There was something that came to mind earlier, but it’s escaped me at this point. So we’re good. 

Josh: That’s okay. Part two. Part two. 

Deborah: Totally. I’d love that.

Josh: Perfect. Well, thank you for being here. 

Deborah: My pleasure. 

This has been fun. Thank you so much, Josh, and I appreciate your really thoughtful questions. Thank you.

Josh: Definitely. This has been the wealth in yourself podcast, where we help people to design their ideal life and take control of their time and money. Our guest today was Deborah Goldstein. We’ll see you next week. And thanks for listening.